Category: the Rant Board
A cancer charity has turned down a donation of £3000 from the cast of the musical Gerry Springer the opera, because it received a threat from a christian organization saying that if it accepted the donation, they would protest outside the offices of the charity. The Christian organization said that the charity should not accept such a donation as the show was full of filth and blasfemy. Who the hell do these people think they are that they can impose their beliefs on others? and that they can dictate to charities who they should, and shouldn't accept donations from? Now I'm all for people having their beliefs, but once those beliefs start to affect others that just goes too far!
they are christianity's storm troopers the very lowest of the low.
I know this is kind of a serious subject, but wow. A Jerry Springer opera? What is this world coming to? lol j/k I would go see it!
well this is exactly it, the musical itself is everything but serious! they had a similar protest when the BBC showed it on TV, and ... the show got record viewing figures because of all the publicity this christian organization had given it!
Theres nothing like pissed off christians to boost ticket sales...Manson sold double the expected amount of tickets, when a crowd of bible bashers turned up to complain,talk about shooting yourself in the foot...smile however I am worried about the long term effects of this movement,how far do these fundamentalists plan to go in their censorship crusade,I've even heard of some being upset by LOTR because of the magical/supernatural element of the film,isn't religion fantastical and hard to believe?.
i think charities should get their money from wherever they wish, as long as they get it from sources which are not unlawful. If jerry springer opra want to give money to cancer charities then so be it. they need all the money they can get do these charities. Now here's a thing, if mr blair and mr bush gave the money they spent on the Iraq war to charity, they'd have done a far better thing.
If blair and co had done that then we could honestly say a miracle had occured..but you have a good point Dobbin ..and I cannot believe the cancer charity turned down the offer,you could argue that maybe the charity is not as desperate as they would have us believe...
oh well if the cast of Gery springer the Opera would like to give away 3 grand to a deserving cause my address is ...
Also I have to ask where will it all end do these hard liners intend to interfere in every aspect of our lives,you can bet that they will be up in arms if there is even the slightest whiff of money being allocated for stem cell research,I find it inconcievable and cruel, how these do-gooders can justify allowing 1,000's of cancer victims to suffer needlessly, over a moral argument.
thing is though, it's not even necessarily a moral argument! It's more of a religious one. I think to refer to fanatically religious groups as bible bashers is perhaps a little harsh. yes I agree that some religious types are way to fanatical for my liking, but I have no issue with what people believe as long as they don't insist on telling me I am going to burn in hell for not sharing those beliefs, but by the same token strong believers should respect those that do not believe the same as they do, and should realize that any lifestyle, religion, etc is open to being used in a comical sense. It is true to say that the production in question is perhaps in rather bad taste if you are very religiously minded, but you do have an option there - you don't have to watch it. as for those who are not religiously minded, they have the right to watch it, and .. no, I do not believe the production was made purely to offend christians.
No it certainly wasn't, although we do have to admit that it was a load of rubbish! The worst show I've seen for ages and I'm afraid I just couldn't hack it! aS to the general tenor of this discussion, I have had the advantage of reading in draft the opinions of my noble and learned friend on the woolsack. I agree with them, and for the reasons that they give I would make the order they propose.
There is a story in the Bible where a prostitute comes to Christ and wants to wash his feet, the disciples want tu turn her away because of who she is. Christ tells them no, let her come, her gift is pure and the manner in which she gives is pure. Who is to say whose gift is pure or not. Who is to stand in ujudgementas to whether the givers heart is pure or not. I'd like to ask the people protesting, if you had a family member in need, would you question the gift or the giver? I think ther are going to be a lot of folks that are gonna have to answer to a higher being in the long run of it all. God does move in mysterious ways, maybe even through a not so popular musical showh.
Judge not less you be judged.
Carla
The really bad thing is, these loudmouthed hardline extremists are unfortunately not painting the best picture to agnostics like me and other nonbelivers about Christianity.The more I hear about these moral crusaders the more I am turned off by any organized religion. Yes, they have a right to their opinion, but people also have a right to ignore them and do what they will within reason.
SugarBaby I didn't express myself coherantly in that post..smile your right however these extremists lack the ability to respect others,they believe completely and I think their attitude stems from fear, a need to belong and insecurity,they cling to religion and use it as a crutch ..atheists frighten the life out of ultra religious people, because we refuse to conform and they cannot understand or cope with our defiance.
well, today my original anger takes on a new turn .. a christian charity has called for people who download child pornography from the internet to be treated more leniently if they own up to what they've done. Now what kind of a double standard is that!
What! I'm actually laughing at their insanity..this is ludicrous what kind of message are these bampots sending to the victims of these monsters...incredible! but then the christian religion in its worst form is full of hypocrisy, lies, violence and two faced double standards...
Well the point raised was that some of these people are low-risk offenders and that encouraging them to come forward would give the option of them getting treatment before they went on to actually abuse children. fact is though, children would alredy have been abused in order to feed these peoples' need to download such material. check out the artacle at the bbc site at
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4296613.stm
absolutely and I'm still shaking my head at this 1 ...how can they possibly hope to encourage these people to admit their problem, when secrecy is a large part of paedophilia..its time we emptied this country of do gooders and the like...sadly there is very little the medical profession can do for paedophiles as the disorder is incurable...so it seems to be a case of let us surround you with the love of god and we will cure you...
well I think the implication was more that if people admitted to downloading this type of material, they could be helped before they went on to commit actual offences against children. What didn't seem to be important however, was that actual offences had already been committed against children in order for this material to be available to those who were downloading it.
I hate to throw a bucket of water over this argument, but people are already treated more leaniently for owning up to what they have done. If you plead guilty at the earliest opportunity, the sentencing guidelines council which is not a judicial or lawyerly body but which contains a number of different professions including a home office official, says that you should receive about a one-third discount on the normal sentence for that offence. The reason for this is expediency. It's wrong in my view, but I also accept that were we not to have such a policy the criminal justice system would grind to a hault. Now, with the child pornography issue specifically, the point made by Christian charities is one which has been raised before. However, I can assure people that parliament has quite rightly categorised such offences as of particular gravity, so any rehabilitation these people receive is behind bars.
LL.rehab for paedophiles is impossible as the disorder is incurable..therefore the treatment is futile
I can't stand Bible Bashing Jesus Freaks and any other fanatical religious fundimentalists. They expect their beliefs to be tollerated yet they try to implse them on other people and therefore are intollerent of those other peoples beliefs and why? because they think they're right and it's their duty. They get on my nerves. They should be banned from having kids since they always bring their kids up that way and then if their kids want to live their lives differently they use their religion as a weapon against those kids. Those kids are sheltered and when they do break away, in a world where most people aren't like that they don't know where to go and where they fit in. Parents like that put their values before their children and that's irresponsible, because it's the kids who suffer ultimately.
I think that to say people that are devoutly religious should not be allowed to have kids is perhaps a little narrow-minded. After all, if we banned everyone who had strong religious connections we'd wipe out entire populations.
also, where do you draw the distinction at where people put themselves before their children. what about people who go back to work full time and put their child in a nursery, isn't that putting yourself before your child? shouldn't you then be banned from having children? what about vegans/vegetarians, should they be banned as well?
Hi,
I think what they are saying is that children who have parents who believe in x religion are then forced to take that way of life whether they want it or not. I don't agree with that either and I got to say that any evidence in favor of that should result in the child being removed from the family in question because the child should be allowed to find it's own path in life.
Unfortunately I have very strong views against religion, I don't like what it has done in the passed and certainly what it will do in the future. It destroys or tries to stamp out anything it cannot stand, tollerate or can't understand. Take Homer sexuals for example, if they want to be part of x religion or becaome part of it in an official copasity, then why shouldn't they? but look at the arguments there have been over it, and then take the witch burnings a couple hundred years ago, simply because some people had abilities that religion again didn't want people to have, or were afraid of. This is what it comes down to, religion is afraid but it's also fear itself. It rules by the hand of fear, not love or compassion, witch is what it's ment to portray, but it doesn't does it. Personally I think the world is better off with out it personally.
wow that's somewhat harsh. I agree in terms of that religion has done harm in the past and will continue to cause rifts/wars in the future, but to say the children of religious people should be removed purely because of the fact that they are forced to follow the path of their family is a very harsh judgment to make. we are no more in a position to say that the way they bring up their children is wrong, any more than they have a right to say non believers are wrong in the way they bring up theirs.
excuse me if I'm mistaken but didn't the nazi regime try to dictate who could and couldn't, have children,surely we dont want to go back to that...
Yeah, I think vegeterrians, religious people, gay people, people with low income, people who are under 25 or over 30, people with red hair and pale people and people who listen to rap or metal should not be allowed to hve children, because the children may grow up to immitate their prents and poison society, those who re breach of this ban should be immediately "disconnected" to prevent future pregnancies. Now seriously WW your narrow mindedness just amazes me. Lots of kids of religious folks in fact do the oppsite, break away from their parents religion because they get fed up .. some follow religion and dont tell me it's not better to have someone try to bug you with a bible verse than having someone steal all your money or attack you in the street because e.g. they are high on drugs.
That was just ridiculous really.
If we allow religious people to have children then when the child is about 5, the parents should be asessed. If the asessment of those parents concludes that they are denying their children the right to choose for themselves which ideology they wish to follow and are therefore not giving there children an open-minded pu-bringing, the children should be removed from the parents, the parents should be arrested. When the child is 18 the parents should be tested and if all the values they held before the're inprisonment have been eradicated from them, they should be released. If not, then further action against them should be taken.
Hmm, what about vegeterrianism or sexuality or language etc? Look, peole raise kids the way they believe is best, whether it's religion or sexuality or eduction or sports etc. After all it's their kid. I can't see how e.g. atheism would necessarily benefit a child. If you look at e.g. Sunday school it teaches a lot of great values in how to behave, how to treat your fellow humans etc. And what do you mean by religious, how would you define the term, is it baed on Church attendance or donations to Christian (or religious) organizations or simply whether the people have been babtized (e.g. in Iceland you are babtized at the age of 3 months, it's standard practice and 99.8% of the people belong to the Lutherine church yet religious extremitism and evangelist preaching is virtually non-existent there). You need much better definitions and even if you have them what you are suggesting is pretty ridiculous really. Religion is not a crime, it doesn't hurt others, it bothers you perhaps when people get that extreme. You should rather then impose laws forbidding people to come to your house with panflets for example like the "do not call" registry for tele marketting, you don't have to listen to or watch evangelist propaganda since you can simpoy change stations, I bet you the amount of "bothering" done by Christian people to your life may be amounts to an hour per 2 years. No need to get so worked up about it really ... ;) so I stick with my previous post all that are not suitable to have children should be subject to infertility.
People should be banned from doorstep preeching and preeching should only be allowed in religious buildings. I have already stated what type of parents I mean, the ones who get all worked up about their offspring sleeping with other people when they're mature enough to decide for themselves how they wish to conduct their lovelives for example, basically the ones who deny their children the freedom to choose what ideology they wish to follow for themselves.
So, when is a kid mature enough to sleep with others, how do you determine that .. you still have very vague definitions of what you think is right and sort of a teenage rebel attitude which, sure, is understandable but not very, well, I don't agree with it. You can declare yourself independent when you're 18, before 18 you are not mature enough to choose who you sleep with, at leat speaking for myself I wasn't, I did it but it was pretty stupid and there was little to no point to it and, ok, if the girl gets pregnant, by the same token then the parents should throw her out because, well, she made her mature choices to sleep with someone, she got pregnant so she should then be mature enough to take the conseuqneces. You're basically suggesting that children rule themselves, sure, but when are people mature enough to do so? I think 18 is very reasonable actually. Door step preaching, yeah, you know, I'm totally with you on that one actually, I don't see why that should be allowed.
cheers
-B
firstly, I agree with you that doorstep preaching should be banned. I would like however to broaden this ban and include doorstep selling of double glazing, home improvements, government surveys ... and for that matter, anyone else who is likely to knock on my door and try to sell me something at a time which is inconvenient to me. But I think there are two separate issue here. the first is the preaching issue which is something that can affect us all personally, we are all likely to be stopped at some point in our lives and be told that god is good and that he is waiting to take us into his circle ... and that to me is way overboard, but that issue is separate from the way people raise their children. First let me pose a question here - who is actually qualified to say what is the right, or wrong way to raise a child. We all have different views, different beliefs, and of course in a lot of instances those views/beliefs are imposed on our children. Yes I think my child should be raised to know that it is not acceptable to go sleeping around with whoever he likes, and that if he does, there could potentially be consequences. I shall also teach my child that it is wrong to steal from others, that it is wrong to lie, that he should have respect for other people, and I shall do this not out of my sense of religion, for although I do not consider myself to be an athiest, I am not that devout a christian, but out of a sense of morals. But because I have taught my child all this, does that make me a bad parent? I don't think so. And ww you also need to ask yourself this, if you wish to bring up your child to have an open mind, and to not enforce what you believe on that child, how will you feel if one day, that child comes to you and tells you he/she has found god, and that this is the path he/she wishes to follow from now on. remember, you said you cannot force your beliefs on your child - you would have to accept that, because if you don't, that will make you no better a parent than the ones you are condemming.
Hi,
I don't force my beliefs on to other people, I do have my own beliefs and faith etc, but i don't talk about it unless people ask m about it because it's wrong to force it on to other people.
I got friends who are cathlic, christion etc, that doesn't bother me, not in the slightest. It's quite fun because we often get into philosofical debates over beliefs etc, it can get intents but at the end of it all, we accept that we believe something that is different. I got no problem with that at all. What I do have a problem with is forced restrictions, take cultures that treat women as nothing more than second class citisons, can't work, can't have a life etc etc, can't be with/mary who they want etc etc, and when a child or offspring decides to go right against the grain what happens, they get effectively exorsized from their family. Their friends don't want to know them, shall I go on? It's this i do not agree with, and the fact that people say, "oh you shouldn't believe this because it's wrong." Or, "if you don't then you will be in eternal damnation." Again, religion in those instants definitely rules by the hand of fear. I've sen it in my passed, it also prey's on the lonely and the lost, gives them hopes for a better future if they reform. I don't agree with those practisses, nore shall I ever.
I have no doubt that there are those out there that have taken up a faih because they truly believe that x faith is the 1 they wish to follow. That's a good thing, I can't argue with that, simply because I've done a little bit of exploring myself and I've found my way, at least for me I have, doesn't mean that it's right for others though. I'm more of a spiritual person, I don't go to chirch, but I do go to spiritual healing on a Tuesday evening and I benifit from it. For 1 thing, it helps me to sleep better.
I think it's a good thing, and the other thing about it, is that nobody cares what religion you are part of, because you walk through the door with your god and your religion and you walk out of said door afterwards with said same god and religion. That's how it should be, but how many people out there would actually accept that? Hopefully alot more than I might think, I'd like to believe so.
As for door to door sales, agreed it should be got rid of, I don't even trust them.
Right that's about all from me for now, I'm hungry so I'm gona eat.
By all.
There's nothing wrong with teaching your children what is write and wrong in the context of the law. On the matter of relationships, some people over 18 who've been brought up religiously and try breaking away often have to battle against there parents, who won't accept them having sex before marriage or even sleeping with people at all! That is wrong and those parents should be severely punnished! If my kid came to me telling me they found God and that was the path they wished to follow, I would realising the potential danger they now posed to society change them back, to beeing open minded. It's wrong to force your values on open-minded people but ignorent people need to be forced to adopt an open-minded attitude, for the benefit of society. My child would not be allowed to adopt a religion, I would tell them right and wrong, support them were necessary but if they broke the law, they'd have to take responsiblity for their own actions and I would not defend them if they were wrong. If they became religious, I'd change them back to what they were before then.
Hehe, WW, you talk about the necssity for being open minded and yet you show a serious case of closed mindedness, then you talk about your children's rights to make their own decissions and then say you would not respect their decissions to become religious, forcing children to stay atheist is, in my opinion, quite as dangerous (to use your definition) as making them follow a certain religion. That's the most contradictory post I've seen in a long time and it makes absolutely no sense.
No explain to us why religion is such a bad thing, what religion specifically and how it poses a danger to your kid's mental health and, in addition, what is the level of extremism we are talking about here, simply belonging to a certain demonination certainly isn't extremist, it's like saying everyone who has tasted beer in his/her life is an alcoholic and should be punished.
.. So I will be curious to see your response and please try to make it a bit more sensible and not contradict yourself so much. I'm almos frightened by your groundless and stonch anti religious attitudes, it's almost like a religious / fundamentalist one in itself and it's obviously very close minded and extreme.
Cheers
-B
There are always limitations to freedom, I don't support anarchy and wouldn't bring my child up in an anarchistic way as I've already explained. It would also not be brought up an atheist. They would be brought up with the facts and would not be brought up to be stupid enough to believe things that haven't been prooven beyond doubt. The dangers of religion are well documented through history. The persecution of the jews by the nazis, the slave trade, the crusades, the reformation, problems in Northern Ireland etc. It's religious people who've caused all the above problems and my kid isn't going to be like any of them. Also, some of the less inteligent people who follow religion believe anything they hear as long as it's said by a leading figure. Take Bin Ladens followers and people who follow people like Bin Laden. I can also tell you that Seventh Day Adventist people aged 18 are intimidated by their own parents just for sleeping with the person they love. Can you see the problem here? People who try to restrict the freedom of someone because they don't like the way they're conducting a relationship need to be stopped and severely punnished for their unnecessarily opressive behaviour.
Well, you take all the most extreme examples of religion and, yes, it can turn that way if people let themselves be mainupulated and the right people come along to maniuplate them in the name of, well "God" or "religion x" but the same can be said about a country. How many wars have been fought over countries, aren't those horrible concepts too and those who say they are proud to belong to a country should be "severely punished"? I mean there's just the concept of believing and it can be true, what about all the people who, well help millions around the world through religiously funded and organized funds and organizations and where do our laws really come from, they're largely based on religious principals and, again, what should be the punishment for not allowing your 14-year-old child to sleep with the one he/she loves? What do you mean by severe>? And, ok if they are over 18, well parents can choose to decide this is wrong and if the child does it anyway they can decide to "throw that child out" .. for one thing they did not say things were ok so in case of pregnancy they don't want to deal with the consequences either. It's a tricky business and I think moderate religion can actually be a beter guideline on how to be considerate and a good number of society than any laws, read Jesus's ideas about how people should communicate and then come back and tell me they don't make sense, even for those who don't believe he was anything more than an eccentric guy who was mad enough to get himself killed.
Cheers
-B
You quite rightly recognise how religion is used to create problems, People use it to manipulate the impressionable. You asked for examples of religion causing harm so I gave you several and could give you several more. I don't have a problem with anyone been religious as long as they don't impose their religion on anyone else. If the parents don't want to deal with pregnancy then they can throw the child out, but if the child came before their values, they'd help the child by been supportive. Some parents though fund their offspring to be educated abroad and threaten to take those people who are over 18 out of college simply because they're sleeping with someone? It's not affecting their education, it's just that their values don't tally with those of their parents any more. These blind people are at college abroad developing life skills and therefore don't have them yet, but their parents wish to stop them from developing those skills because they're in a relationship and they have the power to as well. When your religion comes before your offspring to an extent which prevents you from looking out for your offsprings interests, then you forfit the right to be a parent, but it's best that you're stopped while the child is very young so it can develop properly and you can't continue to cause it more harm.
You can't stop someone from finding their path in life, that would make you just as bad as the very people we've been talking about in the first place. If religion or anything in particular finds a person and they decide to accept it, then that's fre will at work and nothing should be allowd to appose it. You have to learn whether something is right or wrong, the more you restrict that knowledge from someone then the more you will cause problems for that person in the future because they won't know how to deal with certain things when they are older.
you know, I have just come to a realization, every time WW makes a point about over religious parents, it comes back down to one thing - a child's ability to have sex with whoever he/she wants to!
Yeah it's funny, I hope she gets a lot of good sex since her parents, apparently, ar cutting her off. I can't hel but to assume she's speaking about personal experiences here, she's way too specific to be just talking about general cases.
And, oddly enough, if parents spend half of their life savings so that their kid can go off to college I somehow have to say they can have quite a say over how that kid's college time is spent. I went through 4 years of college, funded it myself completely and did not sleep around .. I suppose I was stupid and according to WW should have done that becaus, well I could. And funny how WW says, parents need to be open minded about their kid's sex life but then she goes right on to say how religion should be absolutely abolished by parents and she would not tolerate her kids being religious, .. interesting. WW can you give us more details of the case. I mean, it's weird and I understand it can be frustrating but .. well, in all objectivity, what is going on, do you think? If you are in another country for one thing, how do your parents know tht you're sleeping around. I could've done it without my parents ever finding out, fortunately they were very open minded and I had no desire to do it despite getting a few opportunities (not many mind you, but at lesat 2 goood ones).
Cheers
-B
I think as far as religious eaxtremism goes, you've got some people who are either very smart or just very crafty. They understand they can sway people to do horrible things or to do anything by playing on their fears or need for security or just offer them some kind of personal reward. So at least in some cases people can hook up with religion because they wanting something out of it for themselves in the name of some high-minded or cosmic purpose. I'm only talking about extremism as I see it.
that's the thing, you get some vry manipulative people doing stuff like that and they harm others. I can't agree with that, I really can't.
And people can be easily swayed if they're convinced some evil other people are out to ruin their lives or steer things in some direction that's seen as totally against whatever the people believe in.
Firstly I'm a he not a she as my profile clearly states or did last time I checked. Secondly I'm not been prevented from having any kind of relationship by my parents and my parents couldn't prevent me if they wanted to because they don't have the ability! I wouldn't be too speciffic about anyone who was in that situation because I wouldn't want to violate anyones privocy. If a parent is funding their adult offspring to develop life skills and other skills and they are doing that then that parent shouldn't take that adult out of college and deny them the opportunity to develop themselves simply because they had a relationship with someone and that violates the values they were brought up with. People who have values which would drive them to such cruel decisions need to be dealt with in a way which prevents them from ever using such values as evil weapons. I believe that way is to lock them up and do what ever is necessary to strip them of those values not letting them out until they adopt values which won't influence them into making such inconsiderate decisions like putting their values before their offspring with no care for the affect such an attitude will have on their victim.
Woo hoo, sorry ww if I wasn't bothered to check the facts, even if they were irrelevant to my earlier post, for a guy, all the more reason for his parents to make sure they fund his college eduaction in order for him to get good sex.
I'd understand your argument if the parents did not contribute anything to their kid's college eduaction, however, as I see it, they have set aside money for years and years to give their kid the opportunity to get college eduaction (or a degree or something that they feel is important), if the kid spends his time at college doing drugs and doing the marching band at the parents savings' expense, explain to me exactly how it's cruel to withdraw the support. You invest in something, you expect certain returns, investing in your children is the same deal. I had a good friend freshman year, her parents had saved up for her eduaction for years. AFter the first semester she discovered she was a lesbian, all fine and dandy by me, however she spent so much time on the fight for college lesbian rights and lesbian conferences etc that she failed all her courses. She got so absorbed in a social scene that her parents spent all this money on her and she did not improve at all since she ended up with a lousy degree and a terrible gpa.
And, regarding religion and manipulation, how many people have died in the name of their country? A country, like a religion is just an idea, it's a piece of land ideally split up by nigotiations or traditions or history and I bet you anything more people have died for their country than for their religious conviction. And you can keep your own mind rather than blindly following anything. So many people on here, well at least you and goblin being the prime example, confuse religion and stop using your brain, mind control is provided for everyone who wants some, tv for instance, cults, pop stars, sports, the army .. not just religions. You can also be a religious preson without losing your head or viging up your mind, those who choose not to, well it's their choice. And as for goblin being a prime example of a strong individual who does not need support in religion .. well look at his topic and decide for yourself, his need for exposing his life, true of fictional, on message boards, I think, speaks volume abot the supposed strength of his mind.
Religion is just like anything else, if administerred incorrectly it can do you great harm, a knife is the most useful thing or any weapon, it helped us moving from hnting to farming etc .. yet it can be used for horrendous purposes but could you live without it? Even drinking water in excessive volumes can harm your body .. so, I'm afraid your views are very contradictory and make very little sense, well not your views necessarily but your generalizations and vast leaps logical holes and anti religious feelings that have little to no support in reality.
cheers
-B
If the kids were doing drugs and their lovelives were getting in the way of their education then their parents would have justification for withdrawing their funds gbut as I said if that isn't the case and their sexual activities doesn't affect their education in any way, then withdrawing funds is selfish, narrow-minded and inconsiderate and that's why such parents should be stopped indefinitely from causing such high levels of distress to their offspring unnecessarily.
WW, again, I have to disagree.
It's a contract, your parents have been saving up all this money, they come to you and say "well, here's the deal, these are our beliefs, we feel these are the rules you have to abide by and we'll pay your college tuition .. if you choose not to that's fine but you have to declare yourself independent and make your own money to go to college".
If it was something different that the parents did not have to pay for I'd understand your argument about being narrow minded but, as it is, well, you give the money, you set the rules, they can be nigotiated I'm sure but those are the rules and, even if this doesn't sound like the most honnest of responses, how would the parents ever find out if your sexual activities within a relationship at a college campus did not interfere with your studying or grades (I just say "you" in general here, not inferring that you experienced this personally)?
If you raise a kid you have to raise them according to what you believe to be the best values, don't steal, if you steal it's bad, don't beat someone up, don't lie, don't spend all your money on candy .. these are all values, you can argue with them .. if you bring a kid up with no values that kid can't function in society and that kid being your offspring you can choose the values yourself as long as they don't hurt the kid and unless the values are exteremely religious .. like the Jehova Witnesses e.g. I don't see how that would make it a worse individual, on the contrary in fact.
Cheers
-B
The parents would find out about it because the adult they've raised would be honest enough to tell them, and if the parent oput that adult first, they'd be quite happy for them to continue tgetting their education even though they disapprove of the relationship that adult is having. They would not put their values first. As I have said if the adult is doing no harm to their education, there should be no problem with how they're behaving. They could be worse, skipping lectures, taking drugs, not doing their work but oh no, the only "bad thing" they've done which by the way isn't bad at all, is sleeping with someone before they were married. These parentszs need to get a grip and get their priorities right and if they can't do that then they should have all their finances taken from them and given to their right-minded offspring as a reward to that offspring for having the courage to break away and so that the parents can't use the money as a weapon. Plus if all the measures I proposed were implemented, the parents wouldn't be able to spend the money anyway`!
Oh boy, who is sounding fanatic now ..
Sure, I can sympathize with that adult relationship part but suggesting that parents disagreeing with their kids lifestyle is sufficient reason for having all their rightfully saved money taken away from them, what drugs are you on my friend?
If someone does something against their parents will, moreover something that he/she knows the parents strongly disapprove of and tells them, well, the parents have the right to respond to that within reason, whether it's a smart response or in their child's best interest or not is really not a part of the problem. If the response is to stop fainancing that child's education, sure, it's harsh but well, if one lived by your standards it seems they would be even harsher since for even having a regligion you would restrain your child to the same degree as you suggest those hypothetical parents would do .. let me ask you this, if your kid went off to college and came home telling you he/she had found God and wanted to join or already had joined a Christian organization and had been bebtized, what would you do?
Cheers
-B
If my kid was been privately funded and they came home from college announcing they'd joined a Christian organisationa nd been baptised, then, as it was still my kid, I'd stop it from attending that college and use the money I'd funded it with to get it privately taught. It'd be banned from been located in any building associated with a religion. So it'd still be educated, but not around those dangerous people who screwed up its mind. It would get all of the necessary skills in order for it to live an independent life, get a deesent education and be stripped of all of the signals of the ideology it fell victim to! It would also be banned from interacting with people who I believe may attempt to impose their ideology on it. I wouldn't fund an adult because I would not slow down its progress to such an extent that it would rely on my funding once becomming an adult.
And so you criticize people who enforce their idiology on their children and say they should be stripped of all their money and now you come out and say this is exactly what you would do .. inforcing non religion on people is the same as enforcing religion as it were, there is absolutely no difference. I'm afraid you're contradicting yourself pretty badly on this one my man.
Enforcing religion on people is worse than encouraging people not to be religious. If my child came back home saying they'd found a religion, I would know they'd been the victim of a forced conversion. Therefore, I would unconvert that child and by doing so, undo the mistreatment my child was subjected to by its converter and also stop my child from becomming a person who would intimidate others into converting to religion or been used as an example by its converter of someone who turned religious. By taking the actions I outlined in my previous posts, I would be pretecting my child and other people from religious abuse.
not all people who believe in god are devout christians though, just like not all muslems are fundamentalist suecide bombers. Just because you believe there is a god, doesn't mean you're the type of person who goes round preaching to the non converted. even some people who are christians do not want to hear that they will burn in hell for not going to church every sunday.
WW, so you would send your kid to a rehab if he/she came home from college telling you he/she had had a beer, no matter whether it was one glass or a six pack a night, there is no difference between the two in your mind?
My kid wouldn't be punnished for drinking unless they behaved badly whilst undeer the influence of alchohol. Usually when people are converted they're passionate about their experience and therefore are likely to want to spread their new-found ideology. If my kid was just a normal 21st century christian who didn't do anything which could in any way be interpreted as attempting to spread or draw attention to their ideology, then I'd have no problem with that.